A letter from Tete - dancing to the music
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:28:40 -0500 From: danny waggoner <dwag@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: A letter from Tete At the request of Tete, I am posting his letter to the list. My thanks to Barbara Durr for her translation. I will be happy to post (or privately forward) the original in Spanish as requested. We at Tangueros Atlanta send best wishes to tangueros everwhere on this special day, as well.=20 with best regards Danny Waggoner www.tango-atlanta.com Open Letter from Tete to Tango Dancers Around the World Buenos Aires, December 11, 1998 On the National Day of Tango December 11 I would like to address myself with all due respect and affection to those around the world who have in some way or other learned to love tango as much as we do. I would like you to dance better, for your own satisfaction but within the music that is so passionate. The tango is a feeling. It is not difficult to learn. Nor is it easy. But it is not danced by figures and steps. It is danced to the music. I know of no dancer anywhere in the world who dances without music. You cannot be mistaken for so long. Dancing without music, you will never learn tango. You choose your teachers and invite those from whom you want to learn. You deal with the issues of tango from another point of view, and I'm going to tell you why. Because tango is and always will be music and learning how to walk it, to listen to it, to feel it=85because it becomes a part of you that you cannot detach. After that, each person, each dancer learns his or her own style. Men and women. Enough of lies. Don't buy repetitive forms. If you want to buy tango, buy tango. Why don't you enjoy the milongas of Buenos Aires much? Because the milongueros and milongueras really dance. They were the ones who taught the current generation how to dance. However, the path you are on seems to be another, one with a different tango, a tango in disguise. For the sake of tango, and for the sake of all of us and with my heart in my hand I say to you: Dance the music. Because the music is the tango. I take my leave of you with much love. Dance well, have a good journey, My companion and I, Tete and Silviatop of page Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:54:01 EST From: Jack Karako <JKarako@AOL.COM> Subject: Re: A letter from Tete In a message dated 12/11/98, 7:23:10 AM, dwag@MINDSPRING.COM writes: <<The tango is a feeling. It is not difficult to learn. Nor is it easy. But it is not danced by figures and steps. It is danced to the music. I know of no dancer anywhere in the world who dances without music. You cannot be mistaken for so long. Dancing without music, you will never learn tango.>> Despite the good intentions, this part of the letter is quite disturbing. There are concepts which people like to bundle up and sell as a package. " It is not difficult to learn. Nor is it easy." What exactly does this mean? He is not trying to imply that the difficulty level is medium. My intrepertation is that Tete feels like saying something mystifying about learning Tango. Does how like imprecise definitions will like his style. I don't. I remember my frustartion with these type of uninteligible explanations while starting to learn tango. "You cannot be mistaken for so long" - Oh yes you can. History is full of examples. The fact that something is being done for so long of by so many people does not justfy it's correctness. Regards jktop of page Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:33:05 -0700 From: Bruss Bowman <Bruss@QMACS.COM&tg; Subject: Thank you Tete Tete wrote: /* The tango is a feeling. It is not difficult to learn. Nor is it easy. But it is not danced by figures and steps. It is danced to the music. I know of no dancer anywhere in the world who dances without music. You cannot be mistaken for so long. Dancing without music, you will never learn tango. You choose your teachers and invite those from whom you want to learn. You deal with the issues of tango from another point of view, and I'm going to tell you why. Because tango is and always will be music and learning how to walk it, to listen to it, to feel it...because it becomes a part of you that you cannot detach. After that, each person, each dancer learns his or her own style. Men and women. */ Bravo Tete. His teaching, from experience, is just about as nebulous as the preceding two paragraphs. But to watch the man dance is to give form and substance to words that appear more poetry than explanation. To those of us that are still in the infancy of our own learning I think we would do very well to listen to Tete's words, to search out the meaning that lies therein. There are very few of the younger generation of dancers that dance with Tete's passion for music and partner while there are scores of dancers that dance ( and teach ) choreography for its own sake, ignoring both who they are dancing with and especially what they are dancing to. Open your eyes at the local Milongas and witness how many of us are caught in the middle of a "Pattern" when the music finishes. Finishing on beat is the most simple of things. Dig a little deeper how many dancers vary the quality of their leads to match the phrasing in the music. How many know what a musical phrase is much less dance to it? Is your dancing different to D'Arienzo than to DiSarli? If not take the "hammer" out of your ear and smack yourself in the head with it because you're not using it to listen to the music. How many of us study ( or teach ) musicality or serious attention to partner? Very few and yet we line up to take classes in choreography and learn the "latest" 48 step sequence, bits and pieces of which have been danced in the Milongas of BsAs for the last 60 years. Why? Tango is SO much more than mere choreography. Listen to Tete' words: "Because tango is and always will be music and learning how to walk it, to listen to it, to feel it...because it becomes a part of you that you cannot detach." That was one of the most beautiful sentences ever posted on this list. Thank you for your words Tete, at least in one case they have not fallen on deaf ears. Best Regards, Brusstop of page
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:56:43 PST
From: david hodgson <tangohodgson@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: A letter from Tete
i think i know what tete is talking about:
for me, there is the tango dance, music, social world,
salon, milonga. sicopation, lead & follow, ect. ect.
then there is the experince where there is a connection
with the partner &/or music &/or floor ect. ect. when that
happens Tango shows up.
as i understand Tete, his meaning is that the dance is simply
a walk & most people know how to do that. that is the "easy"
part. the "hard" part is when it is brought in to the view as
in meditation or ritual. it is the "perfection" or "practice"
that is difficult. learning to communicate with out words,
learning to have the music follow you, creating your space in the middle
of the crouded dance floor, "hearing the follows lead".
this is not to discount that for some people learning the dance
is difficult, i've had my own challenges & frustrations.
it is only to pass on what i understand & how i see
what he is saying.
i hope this helps
dance from now to the moment.
David
top of page
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:52:25 -0800 From: "Crowley, Ted (NLC-EX)" <TCrowley@NLC.COM> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete I agree with Bruss Bowman's urge to emphasize dancing to the music (as opposed to emphasizing learning many choreographies), and like Bruss I appreciated Tete's letter to the extent I understood it. But I'd like to disagree with the example Bruss uses to show how little attention many dancers (in his view) pay to the music: > how many of us are caught in the middle of a "Pattern" when the > music finishes. Finishing on beat is the most simple of things. I have noticed in many, many Tango songs that the orchestra "tricks" the listener, pretending to end the song but continuing, then stopping dead in the middle where a song end it could not be expected by any musician. Of all dance music, only in Argentine Tango songs have I seen this pattern, and it occurs so frequently there as to be clearly a tradition. There is a logic and pattern to music, and this act of avoiding all likely ending points and stopping in the least likely is intentional. I had over 20 years of musical training and playing, and more recently have been a dancer for 15 years, so for me dancing *to* the music is easier than for most of my friends. This is true with AT music as much as any other. But I am constantly caught off guard in AT by this one thing: the orchestra's choice of when to end the music. The best I can do is that, most of the time, I hear the end coming when there are only 1 or 2 beats left in the song -- a couple seconds before the music ends. This isn't quite long enough to avoid getting "caught in the middle". But whenever I "hear the ending coming" earlier than that, it turns out to be a Tango orchestra trick -- I stop gracefully, but the music goes right on. Bruss, feel free to exhort us all to listen to the music better, but please don't judge us on the criteria of being caught by sudden song endings. -- Tedtop of page
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:03:28 -0800
From: Larry E Carroll <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Thank you Tete
I also thank Tete for his comments. I'd like to think they'll do
some good. But I'm not terribly optimistic.
A lot of leaders seem to have no musical talent--even for listening.
I believe that is behind some of the unresponsiveness to the
music. (Interestingly, two men that I know are quite hard of hearing
seem to be quite sensitive to the music!)
But I think for many it's for reasons other than lack of talent.
Many of the ones I see ignoring the music know lots of step
patterns & seem to love showing them off. Three of these
people are teachers & choreographers, two others are semi-
professional tango dancers. I suspect to them tango is all about
doing tricky stuff for an audience. And the faster the better.
Two of the teachers are manifestly dangerous, running into
several people every night they dance, & frightening several
more couples with near collisions.
I suspect this emphasis on show tango is also why many women
tango dancers (who are NOT novices) have so much trouble
waiting on the lead for the next step. They've danced with
enough men in a hurry that they've developed self-protective
habits.
Some of the problem of hurrying could be alleviated if more
teachers taught patterns that include slowing down or stopping.
And taught leaders how to indicate to women when it safe to
include some of the more elaborate adornos.
Larry de Los Angeles
http://world.std.com/~larrydla
top of page
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:09:47 -0500 From: Andre Samson <andre_gs@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete Ted said: >>Bruss, feel free to exhort us all to listen to the music better, but please don't judge us on the criteria of being caught by sudden song endings. >>then stopping dead in the middle where a song end it could not be expected by any musician. >>But I am constantly caught off guard in AT by . . . the orchestra's choice of when to end the music Ted, Then you don't know the arrangements of the music. Bruss's point stands. Know the music (don't just listen to it) and you know when it is going to end. Dance to the whole piece of music, not just the sounds the instruments are making. And though many say follows shouldn't anticipate the lead, they should anticipate the music, but still wait for the lead. Andre Seattletop of page Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:36:13 +0100 From: Jan Dirk van Abshoven <cadena@KNOWARE.NL> Subject: Re: A letter from Tete Tete wrote: "I know of no dancer anywhere in the world who dances without music. You cannot be mistaken for so long. Dancing without music, you will never learn tango." I have. The Brussels-based Argentine couple Sergio Molini & Gisela Graef-Marino have performed an a number of occasions a 'silent tango' with more music in it than the last dance I saw Tete make (oct 30 1998). Tango and music are about emotion, sofar Tete and I agree. It is not up to him to judge other's emotions. I too may not enjoy watching 'figures and steps'. I cannot however judge that none are danced with feeling. As he so rightly put it: "each dancer learns his or her own style". We all have to exept and respect that even Tete Rusconi. Jan Dirk van Abshoventop of page Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:13:13 -0800 From: "Crowley, Ted (NLC-EX)" <TCrowley@NLC.COM> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete In response to my statement that some Tango pieces end the music at unpredictable places, Andre Samson wrote -- > Ted, > > Then you don't know the arrangements of the music. > > Bruss's point stands. Know the music (don't just listen to it) > and you know when it is going to end. > > Dance to the whole piece of music, not just the sounds the > instruments are making. > I know how to "dance to the whole piece of music, not just the sounds" but I fail to see how that helps. For example, they play the same 32-bar section 4 times identically (playing other, different sections in between), but the 4th time they only play 14 bars instead of the whole 32...and then silence, the song is over. Perhaps the last one or two notes is played differently then the previous 3 repetitions. How am I to know they won't play this section 3 or 5 times instead of 4, and that they won't end with the 18th bar or the 8th or 10th instead of the 14th? They are purposely not ending the song on the 32d bar where it would finish the song at the end of a phrase. The "whole piece of music" I am dancing to has many regularities throughout, but the abrupt ending is irregular. As for "know the music (don't just listen to it)" I am not sure at all what Andre means by that. Does he mean you hear the same song played so many times that you memorize all the details? Or that you should go find a copy of the written score and go study it? For every song you might end up dancing to? Even those aren't enough -- I've heard different recordings of the same Tango song, and the place where the orchestra stopped was completely different. The most recent time I "stopped wrong" it was my very familiarity with the piece that led me to end the dance at a certain point, where I had always heard it end before... but this was a different recording, and they played right on through that place and stopped the song at a different place, in a different phrase of the music. I can't say Andre is wrong, but if he is correct than I am not understanding his comments (other than that they are critical). Perhaps someone can explain them more fully. -- Tedtop of page
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:33:23 -0700
From: Brian Salisbury <bsalisb@PUBSAFETY.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thank you Tete
I agree with Ted that memorizing the vast opus of tricks that the
arrangers have in store for us is out of the question. As a novice I
am quite challanged by the calculus of creating a dance that
satisfies the requirements of taking care of the follower, responding
to the music, (actually, I cannot ignore the music and get
conflicted when half of the couple is not footfalling with the pulse)
missing other couples, (not so much where they are as where their
gonna be...) leading with my body-not my hands, keeping my wits
while attention getting sensual distractions "occur", etc. The very
things that make tango such a rich experience seem to work
simultaneously to make it formidable. (not complaining)
I would appreciate suggestions about some favorite "stock"
endings that can be used on an eighth note to create a satisfying
feeling of closure to the dance rather than the "clunk, oops, music
is over." that can't always be predicted. Doesn't have to be fancy,
just a little flourish or stop that will end with a smile rather than a
"huh?"
Brian
Wasatch Tango
SLC
top of page
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:30:58 -0700
From: Bruss Bowman <Bruss@QMACS.COM>
Subject: Re: Thank you Tete
Brian wrote:
/*
I would appreciate suggestions about some favorite "stock"
endings that can be used on an eighth note to create a satisfying
feeling of closure
*/
I typically end with a very simple two steps. i.e. 1 of six possibilities (
all in parallel ) side left together, side right together, forward left
together, forward right together, back left together, back right together.
>From almost any point in the dance you can be 1 step away from these simple
two step endings. If you are in a crossed orientation use one syncopated
step to get to parallel and finish with two steps.
In and of itself this is very easy. Where it becomes a little more unclear
is how the different orchestras ( typically ) end their pieces. They are
all quite distinct, almost like signatures of the Orchestras themselves.
For example listen to the end of several pieces from CALO and then TANTURI,
these are about as different as endings get and are two of my favorites.
Calo will ( typically ) end with a little piano trill followed by a single
high note. Tanturi on the other hand will finish with a strong beat,
followed by a long pause and then a final beat. You must know the music
intimately to distiquish between the endings of the different orchestras.
The goal here is to match your steps ( with both timing and feeling ) to the
particular orchestra's final notes, easier said than done.
In the end the result of all your study is the wonderful feeling you get
when music and partner come together with great harmony. Which is WAY cool
when it happens, hopefully for Las Parejas as well :-)
Best Regards,
Bruss
top of page
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:55:57 PST
From: david hodgson <tangohodgson@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Thank you Tete
Here let me see if i can clerify on at least two points.
the first is the way that tango songs end.
it was explaine to me by a very knowleable tangeros here in seattle
(thanks larry) that tango bands & orchisrtras have trade mark endings
for their arrangments, for me i hear a lot of the same tango pieces
done very similar by totaly different bands & yet most ending are done
differently. one solutoin is ito listen to lots of different bands
& their arrangments.
as for "feel" the music, well each of us feels & understands the
music in different ways. for me i "feel the music with my body &
heart, thats me.
for andr'e it looks like he feels the music through an under
standing of music through structure, placement of notes, & phrasing
(andre, plaease correct me if i am wrong!) for my self, i have a huge
difficulty in feeling the music this way,,,,,that is me!!!!!!
the best place is to always start with your self, how do you
connect with the music, do you feel it, do you see it, do you hear it.
Thats my two cents
tango on
David~
top of page
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:16:42 -0700 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@CSN.NET> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete >Brian wrote: >/* > I would appreciate suggestions about some favorite "stock" >endings that can be used on an eighth note to create a satisfying >feeling of closure >*/ > >I typically end with a very simple two steps. i.e. 1 of six possibilities ( >all in parallel ) side left together, side right together, forward left >together, forward right together, back left together, back right together. >>From almost any point in the dance you can be 1 step away from these simple >two step endings. If you are in a crossed orientation use one syncopated >step to get to parallel and finish with two steps. Bruss! You have broken the unspoken code of tango machismo! Never explain that tango is simple or maybe the other guys will figure it out. But allow me to follow you into the breach: Tango is as simple as holding your partner tenderly and simply walking to the music. 8, 10 or 6 count basics really get in the way of learning the dance. Counting, especially counting some kind of Basic, will make your approach hopelessly analytical. In fact you need to FEEL the endings, not calculate them. The endings you describe, including the two top-secret "forward-then-together" can also fit the ends of the phrases, which brings up the requirement that the leader hear how the music is phrased. But notice that the all-to-commonly-taught 8CBw/DBS only has only one of your four endings in it. Tom Stermitztop of page Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:58:36 -0700 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@CSN.NET> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete Having watched him dance, I think Andre feels the music, rather than analyzing it. Most tango dance music is from the 1930s and 40s. This was the "big band era" of tango. These orchestras and musical styles are usually easy to figure out, even if they are foreign to us at first. Once you feel that Tango energy and get to know the orchestras you don't have to memorize all the different versions. I am sure that you could put on an unfamiliar Tanturi, Biagi or Fresedo and Andre would have no trouble feeling the energy and ending exactly right. Pugliese wouldn't be so simple, but he could probably fake it. By the 50s, more and more of the tango music was designed for listening, not dancing. A composer as improvisational as Piazzola created music in which it is hard to find the phrase or song endings unless you really know it. It is like trying to dance lindy hop to John Coltrane. Maybe that would work for some wierd performance piece, but the "real" tango dance music has a definite energy, phrasing and rhythmic play that is as obvious as the "swing" in Benny Goodman. There are a few DJs that play a lot of modern or really obscure music that doesn't have clear phrasing, energy or rhythm. If you get stuck with a whole evening of Piazzola and 1960s tango, you can survive only by memorizing all those same pieces of music. This is pretty strange if you are a visitor to town. Tom Stermitztop of page Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:20:23 -0500 From: Andre Samson <andre_gs@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete Ted, Easy, I'm not critical. But you answered your own question. >> . . . you hear the same song played so many times that you memorize all the details? Yup, "knowing the music", the arrangement, the recording, in your body, not your head (well, via your head). >How am I to know they won't play this section 3 or 5 times instead of 4 . . . Well I assume you are listening to a recorded CD or tape. And yes there are some odd to North American Culture Music "conventions" that tango includes. But picking them out in the recording, becomes knowing the music, just as a skip in one of your old favorite records is "missing" when you hear a clean copy on the radio. You expect the "pop", then it isn't there. >>I've heard different recordings of the same Tango song, and the place where the orchestra stopped was completely different. Now you have to clarify. Are you saying one was a differently edited version of the very same recording session? Or are you saying you didn't recognise the difference between two different orchestras recording of the same tune? There are some recordings of music, from CD, that are missing the "chi" of the "boom-chi" ending. Yes its a frustrating poorly editied CD. "Boom-chi interuptus", so to speak. But the rest of the tune is complete as per other CDs of the same recording session. Maybe scratchier then a digitally cleaned up copy. But you seem to be saying that Tango orchestras have to adhere to a 32/64 Contra dance arrangement for you to dance the whole piece of music and know when an ending is coming. That isn't the case. Brian wrote: >>I agree with Ted that memorizing the vast opus of tricks that the arrangers have in store for us is out of the question. But you aren't memorizing tricks. You are "memorizing" recordings, arrangements. David said, >>for andr'e it looks like he feels the music through an under standing of music through structure, placement of notes, & phrasing Hmmm, I'd say I know the music by recording. Within the first few notes I know, by my body, which song, which recording I am hearing. I might be able to hum the ending if you stopped the tune (though I might have to fast forward in my head to get there), but I "feel" when the ending is coming, from feeling the conventions and knowing that recording. And yes, if it is a tune I don't know, then I can only use my by-ear musical intuition to work as best as possible. In that case, I don't "know the music". Period. And could everyone please take it easy on the full copy quotes of other's posts. Isn't necessary for the discussion but does add to the archive. Andre Seattletop of page Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:09:00 +0100 From: Raimund Schlie <kbb@PODEWIL.DE> Subject: Re: Thank you Tete Hi list! Some remarks on the debate how to end a dance: when you watch argentinians dance socially in a milonga you will notice that they often stop dancing & embracing when the rhythm stops in pieces with some sort of rubato in the end, if e.g. the singer has a coda. They start by the way not with the beginning of the tune but tune in while chatting. The "refined" way of (starting &) stopping discussed on the list derives from the espectaculo style and it seems that this influence leads to a certain ambition. I personally don=B4t care about analysis of musical forms or styles of orquestas while dancing (although I find it interesting how the arrangers create some trademark, as the "four" of Biagi or the different way to emphasize the beats of a bar) and I certainly don=B4t agree that one should know the pieces exactly or has to create a repertory of endings in order to hit the right note in the end. With more or less experience it is possible to develop some sort of openness in order to cope with different styles & orquestas and I regret orders from certain "tango-stalinists" that "you-have-to-dance-this-or-that-style-to-this-music". In my experience a good arrangement played by a good orquesta leads the dancers through the dance to the appropriate end. If you "miss" the end of a traditional piece, maybe it=B4s not you: a lot of these recordings are simply not good, they don=B4t have the energetic flow of the "standard-recordings": not every recording is worth to be presented in a milonga. In BsAs they normally use a very small repertory and a friend, who works as a dj (in Holland) and has 30.000 recordings, told me, that he uses only around 2.000 of them.And if some arrangers play with the expectations and try to cheat the dancers: listen to Eduardo Arquimbau (to give the gist): " In a true tango neither the leader nor the follower are really knowing, what will happen next. One has to deal with the music, the partner and the traffic. If you start to calculate what combination to execute next, the dance is becoming a lie!" So: tango is improvisation and demands the preparedness or devotion to everything possible to happen in every moment. If a dancer is really in this mood there will be no problem with "sudden endings" or wicked arrangements: just learn to listen and to feel how the piece is moving and enjoy your invention of the moment. And regarding tango nuevo: consider, that Piazzolla did fiercely regret the demands of the dancers, when he started to leave the traditional track. The traditionalists are known to have given him tomatoes (and not fresh ones) for his wonderful music. But the dancers & the dance improved (again in parallel to the development in the decades before) since then and later Piazzolla admitted that it was possible to dance even to his music. On the other hand I don=B4t feel obliged to dance to every piece which is performed with some sort of typical sound or instrument and thus considered as "tango". One should follow the mood of the moment, than (like Sergio & Gisela) it's possible to dance even in silence or to perform a slow milonga to Ravels "Bolero" (which is an amazing experience). saludos Raimundtop of page
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:14:26 -0700
From: Brian Salisbury <bsalisb@PUBSAFETY.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thank you Tete
Tom wrote:
> Having watched him dance, I think...Andre would have no trouble feeling the
> energy and ending exactly right. Pugliese wouldn't be so simple, but he
> could probably fake it.
So, by "soaking up" enough tango music the tanguero will
understand its essence well enough to improvise a dance to most
any arrangement that comes along.
Tom is fortunate to have frequent opportunities to dance to
Extasis Orquesta non Typica who are generating fresh
arrangements with plenty of "essence" and delightful surprizes as
well.
For me to feel comfortable flowing with the music and letting it
guide me through the maze I still must rely on some "steps". It is
true that attempting to choreograph a dance more than one or two
measures ahead is stiff and futile and experienced dancers can "go
with the moment." I expect I will rely on the security of having a
stable of tried and true "pals" before attaining that freedom. I'll be
taking Bruss' suggestions to heart.
Brian
Wasatch Tango
SLC
top of page
top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page top of page
Garrit Fleischmann Dec.98 |